AeA: Support Alt.Music.Autechre Posts - October 1997

The ongoing saga of whether or not to have a newsgroup for alt.music.autechre.... first proposed (that I am aware of) by Michael Shepherd in early fall 97. There are a lot of pros and cons, and this is still going on...!
Included in here are my original manifesto post for the newsgroup effort, and the original post where I came up with the idea for this site... my that was fast!!! (BTW both were written from an anternate email address, where I am jacko11. It's still buzzwagon tho! :-)


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From: jack <jacko11@telegram.infi.net>
Newsgroups: rec.music.ambient,alt.music.techno,rec.music.industrial
Subject: Support Alt.Music.Autechre!!!!
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:53:06 -0400

**** Ae fans, support your new newsgroup's creation!! Write!! ****

10/17/97

I am hereby announcing that I am writing a proposal, to be posted on
ALT.CONFIG for discussion, for a new newsgroup: ALT.MUSIC.AUTECHRE. The
idea was first brought up here by someone who I don't remember, weeks
ago, and there was some interest. If you are an AE fan and you're
interested in having your own newsgroup for all things Autechre, please
reply to this message and to alt.config according to the below
information!!!!

Apparently the newsgroup creation process is tricky. First, someone must
officially propose the new group with a message on alt.config, and allow
a period for discussion. If people object, we must respond calmly and
rationally: a flame war will probably end our chances of having the
group.

I have decided to write a *charter* for alt.music.autechre; a charter is
an explanation and justification of the new group's purpose and subject
matter, in a few paragraphs. We must also show evidence of interest. So
please, tell me in a few words why you think we should have an AE
newsgroup, and how much you would LOOVE it! And I will incorporate this
into a charter message, a proposal to be submitted to alt.config
sometime before the end of October.

The next step, if response is good on alt.config, is to send a control
message, which is a special news message that creates a newsgroup. If
this is done before we discuss it and are 'approved' on alt.config, it
will likely just be erased and we'd start all over again. The discussion
is essential, so that news admins all over the world know that we want
our Autechre!!

So if you are willing, and able to donate 5 mins to respond to this post
with ideas and later to post to alt.config, we will have our own
Autechre newsgroup before you know it!!!

I would also be willing to put together/collaborate on a FAQ for the
newsgroup, if there is not already an official one.

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From: markw@southwind.net (mark weddle)
Newsgroups: rec.music.ambient,alt.music.techno,rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Support Alt.Music.Autechre!!!!
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 20:49:36 GMT
jack <jacko11@telegram.infi.net> wrote:

>**** Ae fans, support your new newsgroup's creation!! Write!! ****

>So if you are willing, and able to donate 5 mins to respond to this post
>with ideas and later to post to alt.config, we will have our own
>Autechre newsgroup before you know it!!!

Yeah, why a newsgroup? You'll have to wade through endless seas
of spam. Bad idea ... mailing list man, mailing list!

Besides, IDM is generally fine for me when it comes to Autechre
info ...

markw@southwind.net

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From: gree0155@sable.ox.ac.uk (Mark Bartlam)
Newsgroups: rec.music.ambient,alt.music.techno,rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Support Alt.Music.Autechre!!!!
Followup-To: rec.music.ambient,alt.music.techno,rec.music.industrial
Date: 17 Oct 1997 21:05:58 GMT

mark weddle (markw@southwind.net) posted the following:
: jack <jacko11@telegram.infi.net> wrote:
:
: >**** Ae fans, support your new newsgroup's creation!! Write!! ****
:
: >So if you are willing, and able to donate 5 mins to respond to this post
: >with ideas and later to post to alt.config, we will have our own
: >Autechre newsgroup before you know it!!!
:
: Yeah, why a newsgroup? You'll have to wade through endless seas
: of spam. Bad idea ... mailing list man, mailing list!

No, that'll be too much traffic. I'm already subscribed to about 5 mailing
lists and go over my mail quota daily. I don't need *more* mail. At least
with a newsgroup, I can read it at leisure.

: Besides, IDM is generally fine for me when it comes to Autechre
: info ...

Seriously? That list has a really low signal-to-noise ratio. You have to
wade through so much shit to find the odd pearl.

No, I think a newsgroup is the way forward.

--Mark, 100% supportive.

--
+-------------------=[ mark bartlam ]=-----------------------+

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From: jack <jacko11@telegram.infi.net>
Newsgroups: rec.music.ambient,alt.music.techno
Subject: Re: Support Alt.Music.Autechre!!!!
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 18:19:17 -0400

Mark Bartlam wrote:

> mark weddle (markw@southwind.net) posted the following:
> : jack <jacko11@telegram.infi.net> wrote:
> :
> : >**** Ae fans, support your new newsgroup's creation!! Write!! ****
> :
> : >So if you are willing, and able to donate 5 mins to respond to this post
> : >with ideas and later to post to alt.config, we will have our own
> : >Autechre newsgroup before you know it!!!
> :
> : Yeah, why a newsgroup? You'll have to wade through endless seas
> : of spam. Bad idea ... mailing list man, mailing list!
>
> No, that'll be too much traffic. I'm already subscribed to about 5 mailing
> lists and go over my mail quota daily. I don't need *more* mail. At least
> with a newsgroup, I can read it at leisure.
>
> : Besides, IDM is generally fine for me when it comes to Autechre
> : info ...
>
> Seriously? That list has a really low signal-to-noise ratio. You have to
> wade through so much shit to find the odd pearl.
>
> No, I think a newsgroup is the way forward.
>
> --Mark, 100% supportive.
>

Thanks! :-)

Anyway, a newsgroup would be my favorite, but I'd like to put together a
website for autechre as well.... and if we end up with a successful AE
newsgroup, I'll put a page on my AE site for the newsgroup. I think a.m.ae has
a nice ring. It's pronounceable. :-)

Anyway, I'd love to put together a unique Ae site... Here's my idea.
All the other Ae sites have pretty much the same thing: links, magazine
reviews, sound clips, discographies, articles, whatever. etc.

I'd like to do something different, something created by the fans. For
instance, I'd like to make a little site where Ae fans can publish their own
reviews and articles and random thoughts... submitting to the owner by email
and then being posted on some page on the site. If it's all text it should be
no problem unless the volume gets huge. The best articles and excerpts could be
put into another page.

I would probably start with some initial content.... AltaVista has a news
archive for this going back to august, I did a check today, and there are some
good articles in there. Maybe if I comb the net for an even older archive, and
separate some good stuff out.... I would have enough to get started. Minimal
work now that I have Netscape Communicator: webpages are so easy to make, and
upload to my server.

Anyway, I imagine that over time, if people submitted lots of thoughtful stuff,
it would be a valuable resource for ae fans, to discover what the other fans
think, and learn about the music. Usenet is so much more confusing, in that you
can only typically see back a few weeks....
It would become like a repository of Ae information, writing, etc.

Of course, If that works I'd do a second one on the larger topic of
ambient/techno, interpreting specific works, the kind of stuff I love to write
about myself.

A freeform sort of thing. This is very doable, but would people like it??
I already have the web space and time.... should I try it?

What do you think?

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From: jack <jacko11@telegram.infi.net>
Newsgroups: rec.music.ambient,alt.music.techno,rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Support Alt.Music.Autechre!!!!
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 17:32:41 -0400
how would one go about starting a mailing list?

mark weddle wrote:

> jack <jacko11@telegram.infi.net> wrote:
>
> >**** Ae fans, support your new newsgroup's creation!! Write!! ****
>
> >So if you are willing, and able to donate 5 mins to respond to this post
> >with ideas and later to post to alt.config, we will have our own
> >Autechre newsgroup before you know it!!!
>
> Yeah, why a newsgroup? You'll have to wade through endless seas
> of spam. Bad idea ... mailing list man, mailing list!
>
> Besides, IDM is generally fine for me when it comes to Autechre
> info ...
>
> markw@southwind.net

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From: fsjakej@aol.com (FS jake J)
Newsgroups: rec.music.ambient
Subject: Re: Support Alt.Music.Autechre!!!!
Date: 17 Oct 1997 22:57:27 GMT

>how would one go about starting a mailing list?

I started a zoviet france list through - http://www.coollist.com , they let you
make free ones>

?`-.,?__?,.-????`-.,?__?,.-????`-.,?__?,.-???`-.,?__?,.-????
fluorescent grey : http://members.aol.com:/fsjakej/fg.html
-.,?__?,.-????`-.,?__?,.-????`-.,?__?,.-????`.,?__?,.-????`-.

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From: crode@idontwantyourspam.iastate.edu (Chris Rode)
Newsgroups: rec.music.ambient,alt.music.techno,rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Support Alt.Music.Autechre!!!!
Date: 20 Oct 1997 14:49:52 GMT
jack <jacko11@telegram.infi.net> wrote:

|how would one go about starting a mailing list?

i don't know about in general, but with my account, i have the ability
to create and maintain majordomo lists. i'd be willing to create an
autechre list, but (a) there damn well better be interest in it -- i
don't want to create a list that ends up being full of off-topic
messages; and (b) i could only host it here through next summer -- after
that, i lose this account, and the list would need to find a new home.

discuss. ;)

--chris.

--
--Chris Rode, Hardware Asset Mgmt IBM RST, 020-3 E409, (507) 253-4139
"There were no more lovers left alive, no one had survived...so there
were no more lovers left alive, that's why love had died..."
-- Pet Shop Boys, "Dreaming of the Queen"

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From: Nick Harris <NHarris@interlinks.net>
Newsgroups: rec.music.ambient,alt.music.techno,rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Support Alt.Music.Autechre!!!!
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 00:34:30 -0400

jack wrote:

> **** Ae fans, support your new newsgroup's creation!! Write!! ****
>
> 10/17/97
>
> I am hereby announcing that I am writing a proposal, to be posted on
> ALT.CONFIG for discussion, for a new newsgroup: ALT.MUSIC.AUTECHRE.
> The
> idea was first brought up here by someone who I don't remember, weeks
> ago, and there was some interest. If you are an AE fan and you're
> interested in having your own newsgroup for all things Autechre,
> please
> reply to this message and to alt.config according to the below
> information!!!!
>
> Apparently the newsgroup creation process is tricky. First, someone
> must
> officially propose the new group with a message on alt.config, and
> allow
> a period for discussion. If people object, we must respond calmly and
> rationally: a flame war will probably end our chances of having the
> group.
>
> I have decided to write a *charter* for alt.music.autechre; a charter
> is
> an explanation and justification of the new group's purpose and
> subject
> matter, in a few paragraphs. We must also show evidence of interest.
> So
> please, tell me in a few words why you think we should have an AE
> newsgroup, and how much you would LOOVE it! And I will incorporate
> this
> into a charter message, a proposal to be submitted to alt.config
> sometime before the end of October.
>
> The next step, if response is good on alt.config, is to send a control
>
> message, which is a special news message that creates a newsgroup. If
> this is done before we discuss it and are 'approved' on alt.config, it
>
> will likely just be erased and we'd start all over again. The
> discussion
> is essential, so that news admins all over the world know that we want
>
> our Autechre!!
>
> So if you are willing, and able to donate 5 mins to respond to this
> post
> with ideas and later to post to alt.config, we will have our own
> Autechre newsgroup before you know it!!!
>
> I would also be willing to put together/collaborate on a FAQ for the
> newsgroup, if there is not already an official one.

I also believe there is merit to starting such a discussion group. I
therefore pledge my support to this idea. Autechre/ Gescom are a vital
part of the music that defines our era and they deserve all the
discusion they can generate.

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From: cowsfan@ix.netcom.com (Persinthia)
Newsgroups: rec.music.ambient,alt.music.techno,rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Support Alt.Music.Autechre!!!!
Date: 18 Oct 1997 06:38:27 GMT
In article <344797F1.61A561BA@telegram.infi.net>, jacko11@telegram.infi.net
says...

>I am hereby announcing that I am writing a proposal, to be posted on
>ALT.CONFIG for discussion, for a new newsgroup: ALT.MUSIC.AUTECHRE.

It's an intersting idea, but hardly a great one.

First of all, there is *plenty* of Autechre talk on rec.music.ambeint and
alt.music.techno.

Second, getting the newsgroup is easy, but alot of servers (like mine) don't
add new newsgroups unless they are requested (I still can't get the jungle
newsgroup).

Last of all, newsgroups for the Orb and various others practically get NO
traffic whatsoever. Kind of best to keep Ae talk to the techno/industrial and
ambient NG's.

--
In My CD Changer/Stereo:

Einsturzende Neubauten - Remixes
Christoph De Babylon - If You're Into It, I'm Out Of It
Apples In Stereo - Fun Trick Noisemaker

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From: jack <jacko11@telegram.infi.net>
Newsgroups: rec.music.ambient,alt.music.techno,rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Support Alt.Music.Autechre!!!!
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 12:47:19 -0400

Persinthia wrote:

> In article <344797F1.61A561BA@telegram.infi.net>, jacko11@telegram.infi.net
> says...
>
> >I am hereby announcing that I am writing a proposal, to be posted on
> >ALT.CONFIG for discussion, for a new newsgroup: ALT.MUSIC.AUTECHRE.
>
> It's an intersting idea, but hardly a great one.
>
> First of all, there is *plenty* of Autechre talk on rec.music.ambeint and
> alt.music.techno.

<SNIPS>

That's why I think we should have a new group! I mean, volume may not guarantee a
new group's success, but certainly high volume would not be a reason *not* to
create a new group!?

Anyway it costs nothing, so let's try and see! If it fails, so what?

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From: GoodMessage@my.sig (LMV)
Newsgroups: rec.music.ambient,alt.music.techno,rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Support Alt.Music.Autechre!!!!
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 12:14:43 -0700

In article <3448E817.FBAFA4AF@telegram.infi.net>, jack
<jacko11@telegram.infi.net> wrote:

That's why I think we should have a new group! I mean, volume may not
guarantee a
new group's success, but certainly high volume would not be a reason *not* to
create a new group!?

Anyway it costs nothing, so let's try and see! If it fails, so what?

The mailing list was a much better idea. First of all, no spam. Secondly,
only the really interested parties would take the time, the effort and the
energy to be on such a list (look on IDM, where many members of RMI belong
and you'll see what I mean). Thirdly, I thought there was already a vote or
something some time ago right here about this matter. Didn't you get the
answers?

LM "who's that boy at the back of the room?" V

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FFrom: jack <jacko11@telegram.infi.net>
Newsgroups: rec.music.ambient,alt.music.techno,rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Support Alt.Music.Autechre!!!!
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 16:44:18 -0400

LMV wrote:

> In article <3448E817.FBAFA4AF@telegram.infi.net>, jack
> <jacko11@telegram.infi.net> wrote:
>
> That's why I think we should have a new group! I mean, volume may not
> guarantee a
> new group's success, but certainly high volume would not be a reason *not* to
> create a new group!?
>
> Anyway it costs nothing, so let's try and see! If it fails, so what?
>
> The mailing list was a much better idea. First of all, no spam. Secondly,
> only the really interested parties would take the time, the effort and the
> energy to be on such a list (look on IDM, where many members of RMI belong
> and you'll see what I mean). Thirdly, I thought there was already a vote or
> something some time ago right here about this matter. Didn't you get the
> answers?

I guess this happened before I ever started reading.... BTW this was posted on
a.m.t and r.m.i so which do you mean? BTW it is explicit in the "New Newsgroups
FAQ" that votes do not count either way, it's the admins who decide.

I mean, if nobody frequents the new group, it just gets erased eventually and so
what? If people like it, then it deserves to survive! I mean, if
alt.sex.fetish.trent-reznor deserves to survive, surely alt.music.autechre has a
chance, no? ;-)

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From: GoodMessage@fountain.net (LMV)
Newsgroups: rec.music.ambient,alt.music.techno,rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Support Alt.Music.Autechre!!!!
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 01:28:45 -0700

In article <34491FA2.BA886499@telegram.infi.net>, jack
<jacko11@telegram.infi.net> wrote:

I guess this happened before I ever started reading.... BTW this was posted on
a.m.t and r.m.i so which do you mean? BTW it is explicit in the "New
Newsgroups
FAQ" that votes do not count either way, it's the admins who decide.

I mean, if nobody frequents the new group, it just gets erased eventually
and so
what? If people like it, then it deserves to survive! I mean, if
alt.sex.fetish.trent-reznor deserves to survive, surely
alt.music.autechre has a
chance, no? ;-)

I'm not the traffic-keeper of RMI on who's coming and who's going, but I
was specifically refering to RMI, not AMT, nor RMA. There was this
discussion on whether we would like a list or a ng devoted to Autechre, and
from what I recall the opinions of those who listen and like Autechre were
deviating (is that the word I'm looking for? OH Hell...) towards the list
solution. Hence my comment.

Yes, I'm glad that Autechre gets so much attention. I first listened to
them when a friend of mine bought Tri Repetae++ and put it on continuous
play..., since then I started collecting... Now if Squarepusher got the
same attention, that would make me smile! Anyway, I've got such a shitload
of work for the next few weeks to come that I can barely make it to RMI,
let alone think of joining another newsgroup (which I honestly doubt that
my server will provide). And with my PPC crashing on me every time I
disconnect, it's not fun any more to check out anything, mail or news.

L "the 'paedophiliac' in me, and that thankfully excludes Trent Reznor" MV
out, pissed and sleepless

--

**** LMV=Lux Meae Vitae ***** tsesmele@enmu.edu ****

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From: fsjakej@aol.com (FS jake J)
Newsgroups: rec.music.ambient
Subject: Re: Support Alt.Music.Autechre!!!!
Date: 18 Oct 1997 21:04:34 GMT

>
>First of all, there is *plenty* of Autechre talk on rec.music.ambeint and
>alt.music.techno.

I agree , I sat nay . I could get all the questions answered in this ambient
newsgroup

?`-.,?__?,.-????`-.,?__?,.-????`-.,?__?,.-???`-.,?__?,.-????
fluorescent grey : http://members.aol.com:/fsjakej/fg.html
-.,?__?,.-????`-.,?__?,.-????`-.,?__?,.-????`.,?__?,.-????`-.

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From: dgasque@aol.com (Dgasque)
Newsgroups: rec.music.ambient
Subject: Re: Support Alt.Music.Autechre!!!!
Date: 19 Oct 1997 16:42:36 GMT

In article <629lh3$arq@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>, cowsfan@ix.netcom.com
(Persinthia) writes:

>Last of all, newsgroups for the Orb and various others practically get NO
>traffic whatsoever. Kind of best to keep Ae talk to the techno/industrial and
>
>ambient NG's.
>
>

Addressing a number of issues brought up...

Absolutely correct statement above. Despite the interest being shown now,
you can guarantee that such a narrow-subject list as this will fall to the
spammers in no time. Except for the more prominent/pop band's boards,
almost all of them have fallen to the sex/URL ads and "make $$$" postings.
Coollist is an option, unless if you hate spam at the bottom of each
posting (that's why it's free.) If you hate multiple postings from an
email list, go the digest route.

=dgasque=

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From: andrew.sandford@digital.nospam.com (Sanf)
Newsgroups: rec.music.ambient,alt.music.techno,rec.music.industrial
Subject: Re: Support Alt.Music.Autechre!!!!
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 13:45:31 GMT

I totally agree with this suggeston. You generally have to wade thru a
ton of spam to get to the real stuff about Ae, Aphex, []pusher et al.
What a pain in the ass!. A mailing list gives you no choice of what
you recieve + clogs up your mail a/c. No thanks. That's a definite yes
to alt.music.autechre.

Sanf.